Data Transfers (Bandwidth): $1.00 per gigabyte Disk Space (Storage): $0.01 per megabyte-month .. In March 2005: # 22% of our members incurred no costs at all. # 53% of our members incurred costs of at least $0.01 but less than $1.00. .. Do you support CGI? PHP? SSI? Yes, absolutely! .. The amount of bandwidth you use is carried over as long as it takes until you accumulate a penny's worth of usage (10,737,418 bytes), [no matter how long it takes]. Yes, we are happy to host sites like this. .. You may contact us at any time to close your account and cancel your service. When you do, we will return the money remaining in your personal bandwidth account. All of it. You're only responsible for the cost of bandwidth that you actually use. .. Q: Do I get interest on my deposit? No. The costs of such a program would be more than the actual interest produced. We periodically reevaluate this situation, because we think a web account that runs forever purely off of its own interest is a pretty cool idea.me: How's that for personality? I was impressed.
> Could you please setup the following public key to authenticate my > ssh sessions? I'm sorry, we're not able to accommodate your request. Our free trial is for the purpose of trying out our web hosting. You've had ample opportunity to do so over the past two months, but it appears that you're merely using it as public ssh server, which is an explicit violation of our Terms and Conditions of Service. We have ended your free trial, and wish you the best of luck in finding a service more suited to your needs. Thanks, Jeffme: so I basically sent in a support request, and got my account cancelled
"We may provide a variety of ancillary services from time to time for the express purpose of facilitating your ability to upload and manage your Content. You may not use said ancillary services (including but not limited to ssh access) for any other purpose."so basically they are willing for things to be uploaded as long as it's a one-time shot
Wow, judge, jury and executioner. It's not clear to me how I'm violating your terms of service. And I wasn't aware your free trial had a time period. I make a request and get my account revoked? Not very friendly, that. For the record I have been using ssh solely to setup a CGI webservice. I don't otherwise have access to *BSD, so I need to build one tool on your servers. I've been going through a lot of pain dealing with g++ 2.95 and a non-GNU make just because I *liked* you guys and the way you operate. Kartikme: it's not a big deal
-bash-2.05b$ gmake -v GNU Make 3.80 Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
Summary: You're judging me based on information I don't have, and there's still only one person even trying to be civil here. Did you read the part about how much I like you? Could that possibly move you to read my criticism and think about it, maybe respond without sarcasm?
I had this model in my head of some sort of vm setup since it was clear my account vanished when I wasn't using it. Guess I was wrong.
I guess it's a bit of a long tale, huh? I'm sure you guys have daily backups. Confirm that my /home/htdocs was in fact world-readable until 24 hours ago.
Now go back and reread d. *I wasn't ready to go live yet.* Think about that next time you rush to judge someone's actions.
All y'all have to do is have the initial 2 cents expire after 2 months or something. All I needed was a prod to remind me to pay.
"We have ended your free trial, and wish you the best of luck in finding a service more suited to your needs."
"antics..paying members.."
If you don't want me, why is my account relevant?
We are a good company and we try our hardest to provide good services and good service to our members. So go ahead, make all the noise you want. We also trust people researching potential web hosts to examine available evidence, consider the quality and veracity of source information, and reach their own conclusions.
My impression is that your judgement of my actions was influenced by my status as paying vs unpaying. It was a process problem.
http://programming.reddit.com/info/qy9l/comments/cr0kn?context=5&style=nested#cr0kn
I didn't know I was getting a free trial until after I signed up, but they explicitly said "hey, we would like to give you 2 cents. Now sit back and be amazed by how long it lasts." or something to that effect.The only reason I hadn't charged the account yet was that there was no pressing need to. Is that reasonable?
Yes, that attitude is why I like y'all so much. But are you drawing the line between what's legitimate and what's exploitative based on who's doing it?
The flip side of trusting people to use good judgement is realizing that they're at different levels of competence/maturity/knowledge, and trying to educate novices. There's 3 pieces to that:
a) Automatically detecting obviously bad behavior when you can
b) documenting such examples for others to be aware of
c) Pointing people to it and giving them a chance to change before shooting
them down.
..
I have a talent for killing servers :), but all I did this time was to run a non-gnu make on a gnu makefile. Is it reasonable it could have happened to anybody?
..
Is it ok to use rsync for uploading potentially gigabytes of data a few months down the road? If not I guess I have to go elsewhere.
We felt you overused our free trial. After two months, you had 0 (zero) functioning websites, but you had used quite a bit of ssh access and were specifically asking for more. I objected and (politely and courteously) ended your free trial. You were told that if you wanted ssh-only service, you would need to obtain it elsewhere.
Perhaps that was the correct assessment and perhaps it was not.
If you felt it was not, you certainly could have said "Hey, I think there's been a mistake, could you take a second look at what I am doing while I explain my strange behavior?" (Which might or might not have led to a different outcome.)
This happened at 3:30 in the morning, after I had spent over an hour trying to understand what you were using our service to do. You weren't hosting any sites, so it's not like we caused you any downtime, but even so I waited around for another half hour, in case you were going to reply with something to that effect right away. (Not that you had to, just that you might.)
But you did not. By the time I saw this again this morning, you were already off telling anyone who would listen about how you were "executed."
It is true we don't want people in general signing up just to tie up ssh resources without using the service for its intended purpose. If anyone is considering signing up for our service to do that, then they absolutely should be warned away. But that really hasn't ever been a problem, except in this case.
I would also say that we don't, in general, want people as members who gleefully post public temper tantrums about problems instead of trying to resolve them. Who would?
Apparently, you did respond very quickly (if confrontationally). The email headers say you sent the "judge, jury, and executioner" email you posted on your site at 3:32am, but we did not receive it until 11:40am, nearly four hours after your post here in the forum glorifying your public behavior.
Possibly that's due to the email upgrades we've been making, or graylisting, or just random email latency. If it was on our end, then I apologize for that.
I can't say what might have been different if you had waited for a response rather than proceeding the way you did.
I thought my email was very mild from my perspective. And from the tone of your previous mail it was reasonable to assume y'all were done with the issue. It felt unsatisfactory because I wasn't sure what I'd been doing wrong. The only reason I went public -- first here and then on reddit -- was to make sense of things. And I did achieve that. Hopefully y'all got something out of this whole experience too.
And thanks as well, pj.
What I lost was not 2 cents. What I lost -- abruptly -- was access to something I'd been working on intensely for over a day, without so much as a question. And all because I asked for support. Oliver Twist all over again.
I realize I'm to blame. All I wanted was a slight tilt of the head that jeff was too.
First of all, I've noticed that jdw and other NFSN staff have gotten progressively crankier in recent years. The unique thing about this service is that it is cheap *and* it is technically-advanced (come on, they offer emacs and lisp in their ssh environment, cripes). Many excellent hackers, particularly those in the FOSS world are, um, cheap. So those two sets-- cheap and hackers-- overlap quite a bit, and that seems to be for whom the service is designed. That's why I love it, personally, anyway: the very unique combination of hacker-friendly and insanely cheap is the perfect hoster for advancing the goals of free/open software.
But one problem is that there are people in the "cheap" circle in the Venn diagram, who are nowhere near intersecting with the "hacker" circle. That's a support drain and I have seen the effect it has had on the NFSN support staff's attitude. Used to be, you asked a stupid question, you got a polite answer that assumed you're a smart person who had his head momentarily up his arse. Nowadays, after probably answering thousands of dumb questions, they're more likely to give you an impatient or annoyed answer. I don't know of any way around this, other than to develop a thicker skin.
The other problem is that there are people way over in the extreme end of the "cheap" corner who aren't just looking to get something for an excellent price, but are looking to get something for *nothing*. I'd imagine that NFSN's prices draw such people out of the woodwork. NFSN is a business. I've run businesses before, and made the mistake of offering services for too low a price too, and I can tell you that no other experience can make you more cynical (and even hostile) than a rush of people literally trying to steal from you. It's pretty ugly to be a part of such a mob, but it's *really* ugly to watch one coming at you from the other side. I don't expect anyone who hasn't been in business to understand exactly what it's like, but trust me, it ain't pretty.
My hope at this point is that NFSN staff haven't gotten *too* jaded. It's a common problem with customer-service burnout. After a while, it becomes hard *not* to assume that anyone asking a stupid question really *is* a moron, or that anyone doing something oddball is really trying to abuse your service or cheat you in some way. The only thing I can suggest is, take a vacation. But if you're answering support requests at 3:30AM, and trying to make a living by offering trial accounts for 2 cents each, then a vacation is probably right out.
From a customer standpoint, the best way to avoid this is to simply *ask* first. This is what I do. "Hey, is it OK if I do such-and-so or thus-and-such on your service?" Every time I've asked, even recently, I've gotten a polite reply, anywhere from "Of course, that's fine" to "No, please don't do that", and often in both cases accompanied by a good deal of elaboration or alternatives.
The damn shame here is, if akkartik had either sent a support request or posted something on these forums, saying, "Look, I have this C CGI code on Linux, I need to port it to BSD to run it on your service, I have the trial account, blah blah", this whole conflict could have been avoided, his code would be running, his service would be humming, and everybody'd be happy. And, actually *paying* $5 into the service is an excellent show of goodwill if you're trying to do something complicated (I mean, come on $5 is too much? How about $2, then?). If jdw really spent an hour "trying to understand" what was happening on a 2 cent trial account, then he probably pissed away way too much valuable time on that 2-cent account. Wouldn't that irk you too? Speaking of which: instead of wasting that hour, I'd suggest spending 1 minute to write an email asking, "So, what exactly are you trying to use our service to do?". Finally, if you're answering support emails at 3:30AM, then *go to sleep*, and don't actually *send* the replies until after re-reading them the following morning.
So, let's everybody be nice now, OK? I rely on this service a great deal, and I'd like to see it continue for a long time. If I were doing something funky on a 2-cent account, and it either didn't work or I got bumped for doing it, I wouldn't do more than 2 cents worth of complaining.
I hope I didn't insult the rest of the NFSN staff who have been consistently and exceptionally helpful and friendly. They're great. Looking back through forum threads here and emails, it's only jdw that tends seems to have gotten more curt on occasion, i.e. in this particular thread, and, with good justification as I noted above.